[Poll] Revision on the 6 Hours of OOC playtime to enter the slums.

Alright guys, I want to discuss something I know people have seen many times. The fact that you need 6 hours of play time to enter the slums on a select character. Now I realize why this would be in effect, but I feel that it doesn't really have enough good to offer in the way of new comers or the general community that look for rp and It really can get hard on Admins to explain to certain users who find it annoying or disagree with it (There have been many). I get why it is that way and that people should develop there characters for at least 6 hours or whatever, but honestly, people are going to make many characters for different purposes and development. One thing you all have to realize however is, you shouldn't ever go right for the slums. I notice how limited sweeps and shit like that in the way of refugee and rebel to CCA contact have become as a result of the 6 hour rule, very very scarce. I rarely see rebels or citizens dying at the hands of the CCA because of being in the slums anymore. I think that if we lift the rule and allow for people to just rp how they want and go into the slums, it will force the CCA to RP more seriously rather than getting OOC and arguing over rules and getting admins involved, leading to one angry user and eventually one less player, and if other players are watching and were looking to just rp how they wanted and get into the slums if their char could, they might be encouraged to leave too. Think about it, If we allow for this to happen, people will Icly have to realize, the combine WILL come back there for them, Real miscounts will begin to happen if the situation arises and people will actually be thinking critically about whether they should go into the slums or not. I feel that all in all if we lift the 6 hour rule, it will just benefit a lot better in the long run. We will certainly be bringing back strict sweeping and such. It will certainly make things juicy.

When I first played on TC, there wasn't really a set time you had to have, but, you did have to have a sufficient reason, or some development, or someone to lead you back there to safety. It will just make the slums appear as they rightfully should, scary, unknown and ominous to the player and most importantly to the player. It will allow for rp to flow a lot more smoothly in the server. It should still be similar to this.

On the rebel side of things, this will force them to actually consider the refugee count and trust of people coming in and out. What if someone is captured by the CCA who has met a rebel? Well guess what? Some info may be revealed. Things will get tight and scary again. Things like connections between citizen to rebels will open up again. Criminal RP will be able to spark. Black market trading can happen, The list goes on.

So you see? If you really think about it, the 6 hours restriction was a good idea, but not really necessary making the RP OOCly limited (Which it shouldn't be all too much) and slightly immersion breaking, no offense to Diablo and or/whoever devised the idea. I for the record was never opposed to the idea, I have simply been observing for a while, how the balance of RP works with it in play. Think about it guys, vote/leave your opinion.

I have to vote against this for one main reason:
Lolwebuls.

Without an effective barrier keeping them out of D6, what's going to stop Gordon Freemans from getting in and hoarding guns? D6 is meant for players who want to enjoy deep rebelRP, not "lol codiscool quiskcoupe im gordan freechmango geev mhe aul yo gunz".

However, just last night, two minges waltzed in, completely disregarding the rule "for fun". I understand that a 6-hour rule won't keep minges out, but we need to have some kind of measure that works. I like your idea, Holler, I really do, but it won't stop lolwebuls from getting in and ruining it for the rest of us.

Look, how about this? We lower the limit to ONE or TWO hours on a char, BUT we bring back the "sufficient char development" needed, such as:
-You're being detained and you have a venue of escape
-Someone helps you out and gets you inside
-You're being chased by units/zombies/something
-You're scheduled for an amputation and know it

I like the ideas proposed by your post, but we still DO need a time limit to ensure the citizens get a taste of plaza RP before they run into the most dangerous part of the map.

Now, the most important thing we could EVER do about D6 and the Plaza is enforce FearRP in both. The units of C18 may be softer than the units of C17/C45, but that doesn't mean we can't publicly line up some (NPC) citizens and execute them in front of a crowd. Maybe we can have units clamping the checkpoints to D6 at almost all times. We could also spawn a fast zombie or two in there, have them howl to scare some civvies.

This will make people really think about whether it's safer in the plaza or in District 6, and which fate is worse - shot in the back of the head in a dark room, or slowly torn apart by necrotics.

TL/DR - Enforce FearRP in plaza/D6, lower time limit but don't remove it, increase number of sweeps.

I believe we should lower the time from 6 hours to 2-3 hours, that way they can still develop their characters correctly and such

Precisely. This will give them good time to decide if it's really a good idea to enter D6, but not TOO long.

I agree with Holler, Zaughi and Chris. This seems like a nice idea, but if we change the rule completely there WILL be lolwebuls. So lowering seems like the best solution.

Zaughi wrote:I have to vote against this for one main reason:
Lolwebuls.

Without an effective barrier keeping them out of D6, what's going to stop Gordon Freemans from getting in and hoarding guns? D6 is meant for players who want to enjoy deep rebelRP, not "lol codiscool quiskcoupe im gordan freechmango geev mhe aul yo gunz".

However, just last night, two minges waltzed in, completely disregarding the rule "for fun". I understand that a 6-hour rule won't keep minges out, but we need to have some kind of measure that works. I like your idea, Holler, I really do, but it won't stop lolwebuls from getting in and ruining it for the rest of us.

Look, how about this? We lower the limit to ONE or TWO hours on a char, BUT we bring back the "sufficient char development" needed, such as:
-You're being detained and you have a venue of escape
-Someone helps you out and gets you inside
-You're being chased by units/zombies/something
-You're scheduled for an amputation and know it

I like the ideas proposed by your post, but we still DO need a time limit to ensure the citizens get a taste of plaza RP before they run into the most dangerous part of the map.

Now, the most important thing we could EVER do about D6 and the Plaza is enforce FearRP in both. The units of C18 may be softer than the units of C17/C45, but that doesn't mean we can't publicly line up some (NPC) citizens and execute them in front of a crowd. Maybe we can have units clamping the checkpoints to D6 at almost all times. We could also spawn a fast zombie or two in there, have them howl to  scare some civvies.

This will make people really think about whether it's safer in the plaza or in District 6, and which fate is worse - shot in the back of the head in a dark room, or slowly torn apart by necrotics.

TL/DR - Enforce FearRP in plaza/D6, lower time limit but don't remove it, increase number of sweeps.

Key word you are missing from this entire argument Zaughi, The CCA, the CCA are the barriers, they will sweep if the "Lolwebuls" (which frankly not many peeps are) get too out of hand or back there. Not EVERYBODY is a lolwebul. Most are just honest rpers who go back there and then instantly get kicked out because of an OOC rule they do not find adequate to sustain the kind of RP they look for in a server. You have to reach out a wider audience if you want your server to be successful. And I counter all the negatives with things I have stated. Lolwebuls have always been dealt with fair. When you have any kind of barrier, like Super America said also, people will still try to break the rules. The time limit is on the side, what will make them think about whether it is safe or not, as you have stated, is all the IC things that happen, not some OOC time limit they need to even have in their minds at all. They shouldn't even have a time limit period. It takes about 1-2 hours to get your char developed enough to even want to go in the slums anyways so it is sort of useless anyways to have 1-2 hours. I did state, that real miscounts will happen. The CCA aren't just going to sit in the plaza and let the citizens leave when they do, I don't know if you know that or not. CCA will actually need to detect a miscount, get on their DvL's and sweep when things get out of hand. On top of that, rebels will need to worry about the refugee count. I will not rephrase what I have stated in the initial opinion, I just think what you are saying is pretty much useless, not to be rude.

Lolwebuls will always be a problem mang.

And, another thing, this will force CCA RP to actually be CCA rp. They will actually have to watch the citizens and stay at checkpoints. If to many escape, who's fault is it? The unit within the area not giving enough shits to pay attention. IC will become a lot higher without. It just makes everything else better. And... there will be an actual reason for blackmarks/demotion, rather than people trying to make up bull reasons and get into OOC arguments. We need to have less OOC immersion breaking stuff that isn't needed. Don't at be wrong, some is needed, just not all of it.

Hmm... I can see your point here. Alrighty, this seems to work, however, I still think we should have 1-2 hours there JUST to make sure the "honest rpers" don't go rushing into the slums the moment they enter the server.

I think a BETTER solution would be to keep the CCA clamping the checkpoints at all times. I was observing the CCA clamping them today, and it actually works suprisingly well. Nobody escaped while there were CCA on the checkpoints.

I agree with Holler's post but I feel there should be exceptions. Maybe a true RP event happened that a SA can approve entrance into the slums for example,

A citizen gets kidnapped for some odd reason (look at you Doug 'redrum')
Something happens that you need to flee to the slums otherwise your character will die (Like maybe exogen breach or zombies?)

I just don't want this to be a "Oh sweet I have 6+ hours on this character! /me walks into slums because I have BS reason".


So maybe we have the 6 hour rule but admins could take a player out if they feel that player needs more developing or just shouldn't be in the slums because of the reason they gave. Like "Oh I want to be rebel".

Just my $.02

The possibility that we lower the time to something very short, or non-existent, and have an OP+ question any new player found in D6 is a thought I had recently.

And by questioned I mean

Prove that you can type correctly with proper grammar.
Explain your characters background story to make sure its cannon
And to explain what they know about D6 currently, after what ever they say, give them a speech about how dangerous it is and how no matter who you are, danger can find you here. And the possibility is very high.

After that, let them go. If we get any complaints we pull them out almost like bouncers, void the entire time they were in D6 and make them Citizens again.

Just an idea.

DIABLO258 wrote:The possibility that we lower the time to something very short, or non-existent, and have an OP+ question any new player found in D6 is a thought I had recently.

And by questioned I mean

Prove that you can type correctly with proper grammar.
Explain your characters background story to make sure its cannon
And to explain what they know about D6 currently, after what ever they say, give them a speech about how dangerous it is and how no matter who you are, danger can find you here. And the possibility is very high.

After that, let them go. If we get any complaints we pull them out almost like bouncers, void the entire time they were in D6 and make them Citizens again.

Just an idea.

Hmm, I like the idea of being a bouncer... But I still think there should be at least an hour or so before you can attempt to enter. Plaza RP is fun when there are people actually RPing (Even more fun than slums rp at times) and having a time limit (even a short one) would require the player to try out the plaza RP and who knows, they might even prefer it more than the thought of escaping.
If we just allow players to enter even if they do have a good RP reason with no time delay, then we could potentially ruin the normal or "Plaza RP" because if they start out with resistance RP like maybe talking to a rebel or just seeing resistance acts then it could make them not want to RP in the plaza.

I remember when I was starting out the little things would be enough for me to be giddy. I would think how I would never even talk to a rebel. I always dreamed of entering the slums and having some funky RP (not ERP...) and just the slightest acts of resistance by citizens, like cursing at CCA, maybe throwing a can on purpose to litter, or just straight up attacking someone would make the RP so much better. If you were just to start in the slums then you could be decentralized of the little things and they may only have fun with big events and be bored with passive ones.

DIABLO258 wrote:The possibility that we lower the time to something very short, or non-existent, and have an OP+ question any new player found in D6 is a thought I had recently.

And by questioned I mean

Prove that you can type correctly with proper grammar.
Explain your characters background story to make sure its cannon
And to explain what they know about D6 currently, after what ever they say, give them a speech about how dangerous it is and how no matter who you are, danger can find you here. And the possibility is very high.

After that, let them go. If we get any complaints we pull them out almost like bouncers, void the entire time they were in D6 and make them Citizens again.

Just an idea.

I like this idea, though I feel that the development, and everything else will unfold once we meet them ICly in the slums, if they're a lolwebul we will be able to tell and just pull them out one way or another, If they are a minge, well we will definitely get them out of there. They should have to figure out the dangers of D6 in my opinion rather than us explaining it to them OOCly, if they don't get that, then they don't know how to read the text we left all around. I think if we absolutely need to explain to someone we should, but until that point arises or is needed, I say we just let things go with the flow. As for the backgrounds and how they got in there, we will figure it out ICly. If it is some really lolwebul or minge way of getting into the slums, then we should just deal with them the way we did in the past.

I've personally always thought the answer to lolwebuls was found by ICLY dealing with them, but going 100% IC doesn't exactly work.

When we tried 100% IC before, it sort of worked.
Elements like thugs (Reggie/Tyrone) would find and rob or sometimes even kill people. We also tried the use of zombies, and they repelled some people, but others would just try running right through them.
Then there were the combine sweeps that obviously worked because the OTA could track down almost any average citizen and detain/amputate them, but these are a once in awhile thing.
Then there was that slum-patroller guy Joe came up with (OCO I think?) that was a nice idea, but it wasn't active enough or something, and people managed to get by once again.

I think the answer lies in the IC mood of the resistance. They haven't been harsh enough in a long time. They are the most prominent and active in the slums, and therefore should be its protectors and "Cleaners".
Yes they are supposed to be helping humanity as their overall goal, but if someone puts them in danger, they have to know when to get rid of them. They have to stick together to the ones they know, and only accept worthwhile new people. Miscounts aren't done enough, and it doesn't occur to the resistance members whenever they see a new citizen there. THEY NEED TO BE HARSHER. Everyone wants to be the good guy and give second chances (Ive done this too) but they need to know when it's time to force someone out or put a bullet in their head. Citizens can be just as dangerous as the combine (Spies/loyalists/people trying to get points off). 80% of the resistance are usually veterans at any given point in time, they should be severely paranoid. Not crazy, but suspicious of every new face and every bump they hear in the night, because they need to be. The resistance has to be perfect to have a chance of opposing the combine, and they are far from perfect. Veterans see their share of death and blood and the capability of the OTA/CCA. It should bother them mentally and emotionally.

Bottom line:
Realism.
The current leader has to put the safety of their members before protecting civilians. Draw the line in the sand between accepting someone or kicking them out/or even killing them to protect your fellow resistance. Unintelligent citizens are dangerous, and should be treated as such. HL2 is a harsh game, with harsh combine rulers, and the resistance has to be just as harsh to survive. Don't be afraid to make your character nasty if you have to. Miscounts are a very real thing, and people should understand that, so your character shouldn't be automatically hated.

This doesn't mean no one can enter the slums ever, but they should be reluctant to leap into the arms of the resistance, unless they have absolutely no where else to turn because the CCA wants them dead.

And yeah we still need OOC intervention to net out the obvious minges, but I feel decent players should have to RP their way through problems, which is the whole point of RP.

Yeah I feel that we need to start kicking random people out again, it was a privilege to be in the slums when I first started playing. You had to earn it. You couldn't just escape and by like oh wow I'm free now! The slums isn't free territory, it is territory owned and controlled by the resistance and if you get on their good side then they may let you stay / help, but don't except them to have open arms when you just start running in with 5 OTA's behind your back chasing after you.