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CCA: Do they retain memory?

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CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post  Silver on Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:58 pm

Hey everyone, today we were having a discussion on if CCA retain their memory when they become a CCA. Do all CCA get their memory replaced when they become an 06, or does it happen at some rank? JoeDIABLO stated they do lose their memory upon becoming an 06 and this seems to be the rule now. That would have heavy consequences since a lot of very interesting RP would have to be voided.
But then how did Barney infiltrate the CCA? Did he just steal a suit? I actually believe that in the canon, CCA could retain their memory. In this post I'll try to describe why I think that.



The Combine Overwiki states the following (link):
Memory Replacement is a psycho-engineering process used by the Combine for transforming humans into Overwatch Soldiers and Overwatch Elites. Some Civil Protection Officers are able to willingly undergo such processes to advance through the CP ranks.
This would suggest that memory replacement would not be mandatory for an 06, but would be more common in the higher ranks. It also states this (link):

Another reward addressed by the Overwatch Voice evokes a "family cohesion" being "preserved", suggesting that a mission failure might cause trouble to the family of a Metrocop. Other radio transmissions suggest that additional privileges are gained if a CP has its memory replaced, this being related to the promotion to Overwatch Soldier or Overwatch Elite by willfully surrendering more and more human features and characteristics.
This would also imply that initially CCA wouldn't lose their memory.

Now, of course the Combine Overwiki isn't always 100% correct when talking about the lore, but I did look up this transmission to a CCA in the source sounds.gcf file:

Reward notice: protection team member, your family cohesion is preserved.
(I uploaded it to my server if anyone wants to hear it: http://178.63.193.175/rewardnotice.wav).
This pretty much confirms for me that CCA wouldn't have their memory wiped immediately. If they would have; the CCA simply wouldn't care about their family, since they wouldn't remember them. Now, some CCA would have an additional motivation: making sure their family doesn't get hurt.

There's also the infamous other voice line "First steps towards rank priviliges is memory replacement". I believe this means that to become a higher rank (Overwatch soldiers, elites and maybe other high ranking units) they would have had their memory replaced. I think lower ranks however, would have had a choice.

So I believe that in the canon, memory replacement wouldn't be mandatory for low ranking CCA. I think it would be a shame to have all CCA and rogue backstories voided, memories of being a civilian spice up CCA passive RP.

So, what do you guys think?


Last edited by Silver on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:50 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Mixed up Joe and DIABLO)

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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post   on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:09 pm

Personally I agree, cohesion means to coher, coher means to unite meaning that the CCA would have the privilege to visit their family upon completing a mission successfully given they even have a family. Also, with Barney, with the complications of a bio-signal and such, he would have to have got in with them, he didn't have his memory wiped. I believe ranks at least 06-03 should retain memory, any higher would require trust from the combine inducing that memory wipe is the only option at that point so that the unit is not thinking about his family and disrupting performance. It makes sense for the combine to obviously have their memory wiped and under that strict program even. And just think of the great passive CCA rp that will be lost, I mean CCA will just be like you are a robot constantly which I feel could get boring.


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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory

Post  JoeOutlaw95 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:34 pm

Just to clarify it wasn't me who said they lose all memory at 06, I never was apart of the conversation, I said some things here and there but it had nothing to do with the Memory loss.

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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post  Noobstrike on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:37 pm

Agreed.

Brainwashing has always been a part of high ranks and OTA.
But I don't really agree with it from Rct-03.
It just kills any chance at passive in my mind.

I wasn't sure the what the cohesion line meant, but thats seems like a pretty clear description.

No memory wipe plz.


Last edited by Noobstrike on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post   on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:40 pm

JoeOutlaw95 wrote:Just to clarify it wasn't me who said they lose all memory at 06, I never was apart of the conversation, I said some things here and there but it had nothing to do with the Memory loss.

Right, Silver just to clarify, it was DIABLO on Joe Partell.


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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post  General Bravo on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:42 pm

Memory wipe/brainwashing/reeducation does not equal robot, just so everyone's aware. While higher ranks will have little pity or empathy for...well, anyone, they're not Overwatch either. However, things like more extreme, compromising emotions will be toned down, if not removed(primarily love, compassion, etc). But they'll have little to no memory of their pre-CCA lives.

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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post   on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:45 pm

Noobstrike wrote:
I wasn't sure the what the cohesion line meant, but thats seems like a pretty clear description.

co·he·sion (k-hzhn)

1. The act, process, or condition of cohering: exhibited strong cohesion in the family unit.

(Proof)

co·here
verb /kōˈhi(ə)r/ 

1. Be united; form a whole
- our mixed physical and spiritual natures cohere and mature

(Proof)


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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post  Silver on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:47 pm

JoeOutlaw95 wrote:Just to clarify it wasn't me who said they lose all memory at 06, I never was apart of the conversation, I said some things here and there but it had nothing to do with the Memory loss.
Ah, sorry, my bad. I mixed you up since Diablo's char's called Joe.

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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post  Magnum on Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:14 pm

Accually, even in HL2 it states that "Memory clearing is the next step to promotion" or something along the lines of that in C17
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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post   on Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:20 pm

Magnum wrote:Accually, even in HL2 it states that "Memory clearing is the next step to promotion" or something along the lines of that in C17

It says that it is the first step to rank privileges meaning high ranks. (02-EpU etc.)


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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post  DIABLO258 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:15 pm

They do not retain memory simply by this.

Units have their memory wiped upon entering the CCA to ensure they are dedicated to the UU, and the UU alone. If memory is wiped of family, the CCA will not go off mission and risk everything to save them. IF their memory is wiped from their family, they will not have out bursts or any type of "episode".

And its not like this just became a rule. This has been a rule since the beginning of TC. I have never seen a Unit talk about their past of family, or even about siblings or them self's. So the fact that people arnt following this, disappoints me.

On the other note, CCA rank privileges is not just "high ranked". Its any rank, and any promotion. Sure its optional to get memory removed to rank up. But when ranking up anyway, you are forced to get more brainwashing. Plus, if they dont get memory wipes, why the sudden change of emotion towards the world being enslaved? Why are they okay with their own species being mutilated and used for labor and power? What is stopping someone from joining the CCA, then going "Hey fuck you guys for killing my family" and having a hay day in Nexus?

Upon joining the CCA, you forfit memory of your family and your own past. This is so you can focus on your new life, your new job, and your new responsibilities. I never said the personality was gone. I said the memories. When you lose memories, you can gain new ones like always. Removing the memories of family and yourself can affect game play, but that is how its supposed to work. The CCA arnt dramatic story tellers with "feelings" and narratives. They are the police of the new world order, and they are mentally and physically trained for any situation that humans can throw at them. That's the point of the CCA. That's how CCA RP is supposed to be. You arnt regular people arresting other people. You are drones. You are slaves. You are slaves who are given a better life, in exchange for your old.

CCA Memory wipes make perfect sense. You can still RP the same exact way you did before, just, don't talk about family? Don't talk about who you "used" to be. That's why people in HL2 are upset when they see a CCA that they happened to know from the past. That CCA doesn't remember them, and doesn't care for them anymore. They either chose or were forced into the CCA, either way, they lost what they had. And they don't have a clue, because they don't remember.

---

But because I base this community off of what people want. If you really want it this way, I guess I cant stop you.

Plus, this "Reward notice: protection team member, your family cohesion is preserved." has been discussed by me and Noob. We think it has a separate meaning that could potentially change CCA rp.

But anyway, now that this dispute is settled, ide like to take a moment and just tell you guys, I lost. I lost to my community, and that is a good thing. What I have said in the past "This community is molded by its players." is entirely true.

So Silver, I applaud you for taking a stand. You have done some fine research and have a very well explained post.

Now if you will excuse me.

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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post  Jaquecz on Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:36 am

My CCA always has and forever will. Remember his blackness
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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post  //DarkPossum\\ on Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:04 pm

But if all CCA had there memory replaced then how would they even become rouge? Because if your memory was wiped and all you believed in was the union then that means that there should be absolutely no rouge units. Even saying that 06-03 keep there memory, then how did Stinger become rouge at Helix EpU?

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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post  Jaquecz on Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:24 pm

DarkPossum95 wrote:But if all CCA had there memory replaced then how would they even become rouge? Because if your memory was wiped and all you believed in was the union then that means that there should be absolutely no rouge units. Even saying that 06-03 keep there memory, then how did Stinger become rouge at Helix EpU?
G-Man got him involved with pollinating dem flowers and he was caught.
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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post  //DarkPossum\\ on Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:39 pm

Meleepayne wrote:
DarkPossum95 wrote:But if all CCA had there memory replaced then how would they even become rouge? Because if your memory was wiped and all you believed in was the union then that means that there should be absolutely no rouge units. Even saying that 06-03 keep there memory, then how did Stinger become rouge at Helix EpU?
G-Man got him involved with pollinating dem flowers and he was caught.

This is true, I did read the backstory. But if you had your memory replaced then you would rather kill yourself by running at Gman with a rusty knife instead of joining rebels.

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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post  DIABLO258 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:47 pm

At EpU, it shouldn't really be possible to go Rouge IMO. But I had little to 0 involvement with that development. So I have no clue what happened.

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Re: CCA: Do they retain memory?

Post  Gremnkai on Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:39 pm

The thing is that its not like G-man threatened him personally, he threatened his sanity. At the time the CORE OfC thought I was going insane and was about to recommend me to get Amputated or have a physiological evaluation.

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