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Overhaul update opinion

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Overhaul update opinion

Post  Silver on Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:15 pm

Since the forum is locked and I can't respond, I'll just do it in this thread.

The thread:
DIABLO258 wrote:
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Today, General Bravo and I are introducing a new update.
I call it the "Overhaul Update" because that is exactly what it is.

Bare with us, but we are removing every addon TC has. This means every single workshop item, and almost all Plugins that are not Clockwork Original. We're doing this because I believe that to fix our population, and to fix our Admin issues, we first need to start from scratch. So instead of pointing out Addon after Addon that we 'need', and blaming addon after addon about what is wrong, we are just going to start over.

This means everything.

Pharmacy, Nargodian, CSS weapons, Metro Pack v5, Union Locks. Most of it is gone.
Very little has remained, seeing as it actually is somewhat cannon..

But do not worry, all of your props should still remain. The only prop like things taken down were Ghost towers. They were taken down because we created them, and we are taking them down for this update to start over. I know we kind of just crashed everything, but I believe a fresh start is exactly what we need. So, a long with this update come a few new things.

-Administrators of TC, Every sunday night at 6:30PM GMT 5 Central, we will hold a Steam community group chat. We will be going over rules of all sorts for how ever long we feel. This happens every sunday, if you cannot make it simply message me.
-CCA, we are now holding regulatory training every Saturday night at 6:30PM GMT 5 Central. For this we will need updates on the CCA Roster. Anyone who does not show up will earn a black mark, regardless of why you could not show up. IC Reasons do not count either. If you get 3 black marks, you get a demotion.
-A new way of applying for CCA, if your character earns a total of -150 points you can ask a CCA Unit ranked 03+ they will interview you. (CCA Units this will be talked about in CCA Training next week.) If the interview is succesful, you will get RCT training. But this does not cancel out Forum applications.
-The CCA Forum application are getting a time bump to 5 days. If you want to apply, you will need 5 days of playtime in our server.

That is the Overhaul update.
It will be completed any moment here.
Alright, so basically, a couple of things happened:
- All plugins/custom content will be removed.
In my eyes.. This doesn't make any sense. We are removing plugins that do not require any downloads but enhance RP. We are.. Removing union locks? Really? "They have union locks here, better not play on the server anymore!" That doesn't happen. There's no reason for removing this. We're removing the pharmacy? The metro pack? The Nargodian? Really? I understand why stuff like CSS guns might get removed, but seriously guys? We are removing things that actually created more fun RP or enhanced it.

Nobody will come back because some plugins were removed. The only thing that will happen is, people who have chars who work in the pharmacy/Nargodian will rage because their job is gone. Those guys will have even more reasons not to come back.

Also, I'll be releasing my plugins on C16. I don't see why things like /observerstay are going to be removed, but ah well. If you guys ever change your mind, I will keep maintaining the plugins, but on C16.

- Admin group chat
Good idea.

- CCA blackmark-trainings
..This is not going to work.

Why not? Well, it might look as if it is going to boost activity. But.. It's not going to. People will miss trainings. A lot of them will. If people go on a vacation, quit the server, anything like this, they will come back and have been demoted. This only gives them another reason not to come back.
People need a reason to come back.
A demotion because you were inactive is not a reason to come back and will only force people away. Some people will get on at those nights, but in the long run, it is only going to force a lot of people away.

- IC CCA apps
Good idea. However, it is going to be next to impossible to get -150 since we removed things like the Nargodian.

- 5 days playtime for CCA
Also.. Not going to work. Why not? 5 days is over a 100 hours. If someone plays on your server for 100 hours, they are already extreme regulars. However, 100 hours of civvie RP, without the Nargodian, pharmacy, is going to be tough to get. It will only scare potential players away, because they can become CCA on other servers without 120 hours playtime.


-------------------------
So err, yeah. I think this update doesn't add anything that will make players come back. It removes things and makes RP less fun. I think that's not what TC needs. It's your call, but if I were in your shoes, this "update" would be the last thing that I would do.

Please don't get mad at me for writing this, it's only an opinion.

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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  Wowdah on Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:34 pm

Silver wrote:Since the forum is locked and I can't respond, I'll just do it in this thread.

The thread:
DIABLO258 wrote:-CCA, we are now holding regulatory training every Saturday night at 6:30PM GMT 5 Central. For this we will need updates on the CCA Roster. Anyone who does not show up will earn a black mark, regardless of why you could not show up. IC Reasons do not count either. If you get 3 black marks, you get a demotion.
- CCA blackmark-trainings
..This is not going to work.

Why not? Well, it might look as if it is going to boost activity. But.. It's not going to. People will miss trainings. A lot of them will. If people go on a vacation, quit the server, anything like this, they will come back and have been demoted. This only gives them another reason not to come back.
People need a reason to come back.
A demotion because you were inactive is not a reason to come back and will only force people away. Some people will get on at those nights, but in the long run, it is only going to force a lot of people away.
 
I completely agree with Silver on this. I DO NOT want to play on a server that gives consequence for not playing on the server. I RP because I enjoy it, not because I have to otherwise I'll receive a consequence. There are going to be users who will choose to use their weekend as they please rather than be forced to spend it on a HL2RP server, even if they care about their CCA unit.

As for the pharmacy and nargodian being removed, that sure as hell is going to suck for those who were employed there, and there should definitely be something to replace it, becoming a loyalist shouldn't be as difficult as it is, and removing these two places is going to make it even more difficult.

To the population problem, I see wayyyyyy to many users saying "I'll get on once there is 15 online"
A growing population is a team effort, and this reasoning is off by far, if you want 15 people online, then be one of them. Noone wants to join a server that is 0/30. 3/30 is still low, but way better. This pattern continues.

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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  Masey on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:10 pm

the fundamental flaws within this update is extraordinary, jesus christ

Anyways, I agree FULLY with you, Silver. This, by far, gives me even more of a reason not to come back to this community.


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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  HollerHavoc on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:35 pm

Some things about this update are good like silver said, But I must agree with the flaws he stated, really. It's turning into something like Disadvantages for not playing, Now I hate to be blunt and this is only my opinion but, that's sort of like saying "If you don't play on the server, then you are going to lose shit." I mean maybe over the course of about a 1-2 months inactive totally, Then yeah, maybe you could lose like just OOC things like Administrative privileges. For the removing of all addons, some of them were good, I do agree with the removing of CSS because it was being WAYYYYYY overused and everybody was asspulling them like crazy. 

I expected them to be rare. Anyways, I don't really see a big reason to remove the Nargodian or Pharmacy  because they are realistic under loyal circumstance. I think that the tweak I made for the CETA/Citizens could work, Maybe if we cut down some of the "mandatoriness" of it so it's less structured, because we have to face the facts that we don't control the long term of how people are going to react to certain ideas. Not everybody is going to do exactly what you want them to do on the server. Sure we remove the minges, we remove the trouble makers, but there is only so much you can do. The Nargodian was owned by Daniel Fernandez, one of my chars, now I'm not saying I'm angry, but the only reason I ceased to open it is because y'know, pop was low and I found little reason to which I was trying to do. 

I think that CETA would work better if people went on CWU more once the MLQ system and CETA tweak are in play. CCA training is good, though it should not be mandatory or you get a demotion. Certain Addons should remain because it did take Silver his time to code them because we all wanted him to. I say we only add the most cannon of addons, Metro-Police pack had cannon models. I didn't see any uncannon ones used. Who is to even say that some of them are cannon or uncannon other than the TF2 and some of the joking Sandbox intended ones.? IC applications is something I prefer because it would feel a lot more immersive. 5 days on the server to apply however is a little overdone. If people need to play on the server for 5 days just to get a CCA, that is a lot of time on TC and I think it should be more like 1-3 days. I say we work on this overhaul a bit.


Last edited by HollerHavoc on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  Masey on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:43 pm

{REMOVED FOR CREATING MORE OF A WALL It doesn't matter how much of a "wall" of text I create, if you don't feel like reading my opinion then don't}

edit : nigga why you gettin offended jesus christ mang i was just sayin


Last edited by Masey on Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:35 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  //DarkPossum\\ on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:55 pm

So yeah, I agree completely. There is really no reason to have removed EVERYTHING like that. Everything was perfectly fine the way it was.

Removing shit aint gonna make people come back, if anything it makes people NOT want to come back. Removing the pharmacy basically kills most of the best civvie RP I even have. Removing CS:S and other addons makes GHOST a useless devision.

I don't want to point out every single flaw, because that has already been done. But I truly don't like the "Overhaul Update"

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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  General Bravo on Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:03 pm

I believe we should have a meeting later today, on the Steam group chat. I'll try to get a set time.

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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  Mahunik on Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:08 pm

Yeah removing everything sets us back to where we started. We'd be like basically every server. People found interest in our server because we were unique, And addons do that perfectly

Edit: Oh and these set times for meetings should be altered. Not everyone can make it at that time, I say we make a poll to agree on a set meeting time.

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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  Atlas on Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:36 pm

DIABLO258 wrote:


Bare with us, but we are removing every addon TC has. This means every single workshop item, and almost all Plugins that are not Clockwork Original. We're doing this because I believe that to fix our population, and to fix our Admin issues, we first need to start from scratch. So instead of pointing out Addon after Addon that we 'need', and blaming addon after addon about what is wrong, we are just going to start over.

This means everything.

Pharmacy, Nargodian, CSS weapons, Metro Pack v5, Union Locks. Most of it is gone.
Very little has remained, seeing as it actually is somewhat cannon..
This stuff was fine, and should have stayed.

DIABLO258 wrote:
-CCA, we are now holding regulatory training every Saturday night at 6:30PM GMT 5 Central. For this we will need updates on the CCA Roster. Anyone who does not show up will earn a black mark, regardless of why you could not show up. IC Reasons do not count either. If you get 3 black marks, you get a demotion.
Please pardon the anger in my opinion, but it's a free country where I live. As soon as I read this, I literally yelled in my house "BULLSHIT". This is down right stupid. (No offence) For an example; If I needed to visit my mother (who I left to live my father) who lives 4 hours away and I only see her twice a month, would you hold that against me just so you can black mark my unit? That's being a downright asshole. Pardon my language, but I'm quite frustrated that if I'm visiting family, I shouldn't have to worry about being demoted over it. I'm disgusted at the idea. Plus the whole 5 day play time was already called out on it's ridiculousness.

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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  Wowdah on Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:05 pm

Atlas wrote:
DIABLO258 wrote:


Bare with us, but we are removing every addon TC has. This means every single workshop item, and almost all Plugins that are not Clockwork Original. We're doing this because I believe that to fix our population, and to fix our Admin issues, we first need to start from scratch. So instead of pointing out Addon after Addon that we 'need', and blaming addon after addon about what is wrong, we are just going to start over.

This means everything.

Pharmacy, Nargodian, CSS weapons, Metro Pack v5, Union Locks. Most of it is gone.
Very little has remained, seeing as it actually is somewhat cannon..
This stuff was fine, and should have stayed.

DIABLO258 wrote:
-CCA, we are now holding regulatory training every Saturday night at 6:30PM GMT 5 Central. For this we will need updates on the CCA Roster. Anyone who does not show up will earn a black mark, regardless of why you could not show up. IC Reasons do not count either. If you get 3 black marks, you get a demotion.
Please pardon the anger in my opinion, but it's a free country where I live. As soon as I read this, I literally yelled in my house "BULLSHIT". This is down right stupid. (No offence) For an example; If I needed to visit my mother (who I left to live my father) who lives 4 hours away and I only see her twice a month, would you hold that against me just so you can black mark my unit? That's being a downright asshole. Pardon my language, but I'm quite frustrated that if I'm visiting family, I shouldn't have to worry about being demoted over it. I'm disgusted at the idea. Plus the whole 5 day play time was already called out on it's ridiculousness.
 We are a community, not a clan. Being in a community shouldn't be a job.
I think through the entirety of this thread people have voice their opinions, and none in support of this section.
Terrible idea, cut that part out, please.

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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  Zaughi on Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:19 pm

Fully agree with Silver, this is just a bad idea. We're already on the edge of the cliff for TC. The efforts we've made to bring up the pop have failed, our best attempt peaking at 9 players.

Removal of the addons and things that make TC fun, all the while forcing CCA to be active, is going to be the final nail in the coffin for TC. A lot of our regulars have already left, and I might be among them if we go through with this. I don't want to see TC die this way, but this "update" is just pushing it closer to said edge.


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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  Noobstrike on Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:44 pm

The things that happen while im away...well i cant type alot cus this phones annoying to type on but ill say what i can.


The forced attendance is terrible. Anything can happpen anytime. Im without a hardrive and cant do anyything. Others could havee a dieinng family member they need to visit. Thats just a plain stupi
d idea. Trainings great but you cant throw it in peoples faces and threaten them with demotion.

The removal of the nargoaian annd pharmacy disapoints me. Like mmahunik and silver have saidd, ceta and cwu with its special stores was tc's unique idea. Only we had it. And the addons gave color to the server. Variations from different models to different weapons affected citizens, cca, and resistance.


If this update were passed, wed be a gray cookie cutter server just like the rest of the empty ones, and should anyone poke their head into visit, its 5 days worth of boring hell to get cca, then that position is yoinked away if you take a break on weekends.

What happend to letting the community deciide? No one could speak out against the stuff forced on us along with city 8. That was just like this. No opinions, just boom do this and like it. And it failed. This overhaul feels awffully familiar.




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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  General Bravo on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:00 pm

Not sure if you noticed, Noobstrike, but the update has since been, well, updated. Some changes have occurred, and a lot of your concerns have already been addressed.

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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  Masey on Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:27 am


Stay on topic.
-Slash (a faggot)


god damnit slash


Last edited by Masey on Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:15 am; edited 5 times in total

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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  Silver on Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:29 pm

This is horribly off topic, but I think you guys shouldn't just.. Edit Masey's post away like that. You guys go off topic all the time yourself, and if he makes a critical post or goes off topic, you guys just edit it out. Only makes me curious to what the post was.

What I usually enforce on the forums I've run over the years is, either warn someone (but then, warn everyone who ever goes off topic, not just Masey) with another post, or remove the post altogether (then, also remove all the other critical and off topic posts, not just Masey's).

Editting like this just makes Masey look bad, and honestly, he doesn't deserve that. You may not agree with his opinion, but he makes some valid points that you, as a staff, should read and think about imo. Editting away like this makes this place feel like a dictatorship.

Sorry for the off-topic rant, but this is like the 100th Masey post you guys edit away. Looks way unprofessional.

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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  //DarkPossum\\ on Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:13 pm

Silver wrote:This is horribly off topic, but I think you guys shouldn't just.. Edit Masey's post away like that. You guys go off topic all the time yourself, and if he makes a critical post or goes off topic, you guys just edit it out. Only makes me curious to what the post was.

What I usually enforce on the forums I've run over the years is, either warn someone (but then, warn everyone who ever goes off topic, not just Masey) with another post, or remove the post altogether (then, also remove all the other critical and off topic posts, not just Masey's).

Editting like this just makes Masey look bad, and honestly, he doesn't deserve that. You may not agree with his opinion, but he makes some valid points that you, as a staff, should read and think about imo. Editting away like this makes this place feel like a dictatorship.

Sorry for the off-topic rant, but this is like the 100th Masey post you guys edit away. Looks way unprofessional.
Agreed.

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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  Masey on Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:20 pm

Silver wrote:This is horribly off topic, but I think you guys shouldn't just.. Edit Masey's post away like that. You guys go off topic all the time yourself, and if he makes a critical post or goes off topic, you guys just edit it out. Only makes me curious to what the post was.

What I usually enforce on the forums I've run over the years is, either warn someone (but then, warn everyone who ever goes off topic, not just Masey) with another post, or remove the post altogether (then, also remove all the other critical and off topic posts, not just Masey's).

Editting like this just makes Masey look bad, and honestly, he doesn't deserve that. You may not agree with his opinion, but he makes some valid points that you, as a staff, should read and think about imo. Editting away like this makes this place feel like a dictatorship.

Sorry for the off-topic rant, but this is like the 100th Masey post you guys edit away. Looks way unprofessional.


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CCA-C45-CORE-OfC.76011 - Getting shot every few seconds, man.
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Che'Lakr - Freed, holmes.
Franklin "Nomad" Marian - DEAD? - Died in the plaza after falling off of a rooftop?

i dont fuckin know what the fuck
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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  General Bravo on Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:52 pm

[PLEASE DO NOT CONTINUE THIS TANGENT IN THIS THREAD. IF YOU FEEL SO STRONGLY, MAKE ANOTHER THREAD.]

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CCA-C18-CmD.08292-Alive-Searching for APEX, hunting down the last surviving City 18 resistance members, and wiping out everyone who gets in his wayMuch has changed since days of old, but nothing changed what his mind holds.
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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  Slashraider on Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:29 pm

Silver wrote:This is horribly off topic, but I think you guys shouldn't just.. Edit Masey's post away like that. You guys go off topic all the time yourself, and if he makes a critical post or goes off topic, you guys just edit it out. Only makes me curious to what the post was.

What I usually enforce on the forums I've run over the years is, either warn someone (but then, warn everyone who ever goes off topic, not just Masey) with another post, or remove the post altogether (then, also remove all the other critical and off topic posts, not just Masey's).

Editting like this just makes Masey look bad, and honestly, he doesn't deserve that. You may not agree with his opinion, but he makes some valid points that you, as a staff, should read and think about imo. Editting away like this makes this place feel like a dictatorship.

Sorry for the off-topic rant, but this is like the 100th Masey post you guys edit away. Looks way unprofessional.
Sorry Bravo, I just need to point this out.

This was the post that I removed by Masey.



It was just that video, it was extremely off topic and pointless to just have that video. We remove his posts because he is mostly the only one making flame posts or posts that are extremely off topic. When others go off topic they usually have some on topic bits on them and they are kept up.

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Combine(s) :
CCA-C45-S2-GHOST-EpU.32789 - Bringing the GHOST division back to life.
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Lucy "Hera" Dellgott - Helping Jenny run the Resistance and maintaining the medical division in the Lambda.


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Re: Overhaul update opinion

Post  Gremnkai on Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:38 pm

Actually, he had valid points about the issue at hand and just added that video on at the end.

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